James Pittman: Welcome to Immigration Uncovered, the DocuWise video podcast where we dive deep into the dynamic world of immigration law with the latest developments, cutting edge practice management strategies, and the transformative impact of legal technology. I'm your host, James Pippen. I have today Danielle Goldman. Danielle is the cofounder and executive director of the BUILD Fellowship. The BUILD Fellowship, as Danielle's gonna tell us, is a novel, program for, bringing h one b workers to the United States.

James Pittman: So, Danielle, welcome so much, and thanks for joining us.

Danielle Goldman: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. Yep. So tell us. Let's, talk about the the mission of the BUILD fellowship, what it's all about, and how it works. Amazing. So we we see a world at the BUILD fellowship where the best and the brightest talent who are contributors to companies and building companies in the US, are able to stay and thrive here. And that is not necessarily the case today because of the restrictive immigration system that we have, and we have been committed for the past 5 years to building a solution for these individuals to come and contribute and also, along the way, train the future US workforce. So what inspired you

James Pittman: to cofound The BUILD Fellowship? I mean, how did you arrive at this point? I have a a funny story about,

Danielle Goldman: you know, I'll go way back to my childhood.

James Pittman: Go ahead.

Danielle Goldman: Because I grew up with a father who is an immigration attorney. And Jeff Goldman I I call him Jeff. It's, a lot of people are curious if I'm always calling him Jeff, and the answer is, of course, because I had to practice, even at the dinner table, calling calling my father Jeff. But we, you know, I grew up in a household where we appreciated and understood the value that immigrants bring to the United States. And I always knew the stories from from as a young girl of these scientists coming to the US and and, you know, working on on new therapies and drug development, and the founders who came here to companies because of the opportunity to get funding. And as I grew up, the legislation didn't change, and things were still just as restrictive as when I remembered my father telling stories at the dinner table of the individuals getting shut out. And I did not go into this right away. I started in global health as a consultant, but I ended up having countless brainstorms with Jeff about what could be done. And he's an incredibly innovative legal mind. And he knew about the cap exempt h one b work visa, and he he worked in Massachusetts to develop the country's first cap exempt model called the Global Entrepreneur in Residence program. And after successfully launching and running that program in Massachusetts, he came to me and said, how could we scale this? How could we leverage this model and do something really great for companies and for founders? And that's what we built together starting in 2018.

James Pittman: Okay. Now the BUILD fellowship is a program, and it's it's run by the Open Avenues Foundation. So let's talk about the relationship between Open Avenues, what what it is, and how it administers The BUILD Fellowship.

Danielle Goldman: Yeah. So it's actually the other way around. Jeff and I built Open Avenue's Foundation as a nonprofit that is affiliated with universities. And for 5 years, we ran this innovative fellowship program out of Open Avenues Foundation. And as a nonprofit affiliated with universities, we, as Open Avenues, have been a cap exempt organization and able to sponsor the fellows in our program for part time cap exempt h one b's while they train students from our partner colleges and universities. And this has been our model. We identified that there is an an opportunity, an amazing chance for foreign nationals to spend just part time working in cap exempt status, spending that time contributing to US colleges and universities, and staying in the United States. And when they stay in the United States, they are able to have a full time employer, whether it's their own company or whether it's a a a company that that's larger in the United States that's not cap exempt, file a cap exempt h one b as well. All of this happens outside of the lottery system.

James Pittman: Okay. So now is the Open Avenues Foundation, is that gonna be the entity that's actually gonna be filing the cap exempt petition, but it's gonna be it it's partnering with other, let's say, universities or research organizations. Do I have that much? Correct?

Danielle Goldman: Right. So Open Avenue's Foundation did this successfully for for the last 5 years. And what we recognized in 2023, and was that there is a potential to do this beyond Open Avenue's Foundation and to have other nonprofits run fellowship programs where they have part time positions for foreign nationals to work contributing to US colleges and universities part time and have concurrent employment at their at startups and and growing companies around the US. And so the BUILD fellowship is now this next phase of Open Avenue's foundation. We will be launching multiple BUILD fellowship programs at nonprofits around the US and and really scaling the fellowship model.

James Pittman: Okay. So the BUILD fellowship is sort of the the expansion of what you were doing through the Open Avenues Foundation. Exactly. Okay. Now let's just give a little bit of context for anyone who's not familiar.

James Pittman: So many of the you many of the listeners will know this already, but for anyone who doesn't, so h one b visas are very sought after visa category for professional workers, and there's a limitation by statue on 65,000 cap subject visas per year. Additionally, there's another 20,000 visas available for those applicants who have earned a master's degree or higher from a university in the United States. In historically, the number of people who would like to get an h one b visa and the number of companies who would like to, get an h one b visa for an employee is much higher than the 65,000 plus 20,000 master's cap that are available. So there are some categories of employers who are cap exempt, and one of the categories, are universities, colleges, nonprofits, and research organizations. But explain for our audience how it works that you can get a if if you come in on a cap exempt h one b with one of these, exempt organizations, how you are then able to work for other companies.

Danielle Goldman: Right. So just to reiterate, the 4 types of cap exempt organizations are colleges and universities, nonprofit research institutions, government research institutions, and nonprofits affiliated with colleges and universities.

James Pittman: Okay.

Danielle Goldman: So if you work for one of these types of organizations, great. You work full time for a college or university or a a nonprofit research institution, you can, at any time of year, be sponsored for a cap exempt h one b. But what Jeff so brilliantly realized and recognized in 2014 was that the law says that if you work part time for one of these cap exempt entities, and you are in a valid cap exempt status in the United States, then any US employer that is not one of those 4 types of organizations can also sponsor you, what we're calling concurrently, or a cap exempt h one b as well, and you work for both organizations, you must continue to work for the cap exempt entity part time, but you can also work for the full time employer. What's considered part time in the context of working for the cap exempt employer? So when Jeff started the global entrepreneur in residence program, it was with the governor of Massachusetts at the time, governor Deval Patrick.

James Pittman: Right.

Danielle Goldman: And the University of Massachusetts at Boston. And he worked closely with the general counsel at at the Department of Homeland Security and USCIS to determine these measurements, and it was very critical. The governor said, I'm not signing off on a program unless you have these conversations, and they determined that 5 to 8 hours per week constituted part time work. So everything that we built at Open Avenue's foundation was built upon the infrastructure that was recognized and developed through the global entrepreneur in residence program, which ran out of universities. I agree that it's, a a brilliant solution, and that's really why

James Pittman: I wanted you to come here today and and talk about it. And it's what you're doing is totally in conformity with the law, with the regulations. I mean, it's not a loophole. You're what you're doing is you're partnering to arrange things so people can do incredibly important productive work for these, cap exempt institutions. And yet as the part about the the 5 what was the 5 hours? Now has that been formalized by USCIS? So is that, like, a a a firmly accepted standard of what would constitute the amount of time that have

Danielle Goldman: to be working? So that was what Jeff determined with them back in 2014 to 2016, and we can confirm that on over 175 petitions that we have filed for fellows in our program, this has been sufficient part time work. And what was most important to me, James, because I come from a, a consulting background within the social impact world, was that we don't just employ these individuals on paper, that we build out substantial and impactful positions for these individuals to do for 5 to 8 hours per week that are actually going to build our future workforce in the United States and train American students, or jobs in these high demand fields, and that is what our fellows do for 5 to 8 hours per week. It's the quality of the work during that time that they're employed with Open Avenues Foundation or with these other nonprofits that will launch build fellowship programs, that really matters here when we talk about the entire compliance system that happens behind this program. Because if it were just a front of sponsoring part time visas, this would never fly, and it's not the intention to to build a loophole as you said. This is finding a win win for this country.

James Pittman: It really is. And let's let's go into detail a little bit and talk about the ways that, BUILD Fellowship is collaborating with the colleges and universities and the other institutions that are cap exempt and the types of work that the BUILD Fellows are actually doing there when they're working their part time.

Danielle Goldman: It's so exciting to see the output for students when they are able to work with our BUILD Fellows. So our BUILD Fellows, and as I mentioned, we've had a 100 and 75 of them over the last few years, they spend the 5 to 8 hours per week launching build projects and build sessions. The build projects are real world projects that students are able to take from start to finish for companies and in these high growth industries. For example, if we have a software development build Fellow from a start up, a biotech start up, you know, they're where they're working on on new software for a biotech company. They could launch a project that shows students how if you have a software development background, how would you apply that if you go work in the biotech industry or the health care industry?

Danielle Goldman: And students get real world experience taking a project from start to finish that they get to add to their portfolio, add to their resume. We've had many students actually get hired by the fellows and their companies because they've demonstrated real skills and real work to the fellows through these projects that they work on. And so we have 12 partner colleges and universities around the United States that see the value in experiential learning and see the value in their students getting exposure to these incredible individuals who come into the BUILD fellowship program and the companies in which they work for, and they implement the programming with us. So so we've had more than, a 1000 students since 2,019 participate in these projects with our fellows, and 98% of them say they're more prepared for career after they complete one of our projects.

James Pittman: Well, that's wonderful. A couple of questions. I mean, first of all, are you at liberty to let us know who a few of the universities are if possible?

Danielle Goldman: Absolutely. Yeah. So we are partner so we started in Massachusetts. It's where I'm from, and it's where we got everything going. And you can imagine before COVID, this was not a remote program. Everything was happening in Boston. So we are partnered locally with Benjamin Franklin Institute of Technology, MassBay Community College, Worcester State University, and we recently partnered with Simmons College, and we have partnerships nationally. So we're partnered with Queens College in New York, Illinois Institute of Technology, the University of North Florida. Out in California, we're working with the City College of San Francisco, and we're partnered with Vanderbilt University, which I'm an alumni of. So it's really exciting to to go back and work with them.

James Pittman: That's great. And I I've lived in Boston for several years, so and went to law school up there. So I have

Danielle Goldman: worked there.

James Pittman: So that's great. And, so the but is now is it entirely STEM fields? Or, because the h one b visa is not limited to STEM field. Right? But is the BUILD fellowship limited to STEM?

Danielle Goldman: So, historically, where our first 5 years in operation, we did we we had fellows in STEM and business fields join the program. Now that ranged from marketing to finance to business intelligence all the way through, you know, even architecture. So we really pushed out of the traditional, what you would categorize as as STEM and business. You know, urban planning, we fit into that category. But as we've continued to work with universities, we realize that there is demand in a variety of industries for students to get this kind of work experience and this kind of exposure to the real to talent and to companies. And so we are now expanding out of STEM and business. We're looking at, you know, potentially helping lawyers with these cap exempt h one b's because students who are who are studying law want to learn about what it's actually like to work for a law firm and get that kind of research experience on their resume or whatever types of projects those lawyers would launch with us. So we're quickly building outside of the STEM and business realm and excited for new BUILD fellowship programs to launch with various concentrations across the US.

James Pittman: Well, that's a great segue to my next question, which is how far along are you with the expansion? I mean, beyond, what you've done through Open Avenues, have you be I mean, have have any other, fellowship programs been set up?

Danielle Goldman: Yes. So we're really excited to launch 2 in the next month. We have a fellowship program launching at Dream Venture Labs, which is a, new accelerator for start ups in Boston. They will have a BUILD fellowship open to individuals who are founders or building companies or mid to senior level talent who want to contribute to start ups in the Dream Venture Labs portfolio as well as to students who are interested in entrepreneurship. So that focus will mostly be around entrepreneurship, STEM, and business.

Danielle Goldman: We're also really excited to launch a program at George Washington University with Penn West. It's a new innovation hub in the Washington DC area, and the goal is to bring international founders and talent to DC to launch companies and build the startup ecosystem. And so that's incredibly exciting for us. It will require that the companies are based in DC, at least part time, but it's a really exciting opportunity for founders.

James Pittman: And so how do you see this really impacting on competitiveness of US, companies, and and why is this good for the economy? I mean, pretend you're telling this to, you know, the the public at large, you know, who is maybe concerned about immigration, and how is this good for the US economy?

Danielle Goldman: Yeah. We need the best and the brightest individuals, the innovators, the entrepreneurs, and the the the experts in high growth fields here. We need them building here. We need them working for companies here, and we need that human capital and that brainpower behind our innovation economy, that is how we stay the world's greatest power, and right now, Congress is not moving on immigration. There's no movement.

Danielle Goldman: And if there is movement, it's stopped because all immigration policy is put is put in the minds of the public into one category, which is the border. Right? The public is not able to extract how important it is that legal immigration continue to expand as the demand for global talent expands. And we are here to fill this gap because the role of nonprofits in this country has always been to fill the gap that government and the private sector cannot fill in society. And Open Avenue's Foundation filled this gap for immigration for 5 years, and now we're expanding to other nonprofits who can help fill this gap and ensure that individuals never have to leave the the, you know, the scientists working on drug therapies, the cancer therapies and and drug development, and the software developer developer building a new AI platform that is going to, you know, keep the US competitive in this new world of AI, that they don't have to leave the US because they don't have they don't fit into a category or they don't win a randomized lottery system. And so that is what we are setting out to do at this moment and how we will keep the US competitive.

James Pittman: Right. And I'm interested a little bit in in the attractiveness of using, you know, the option presented by the BUILD fellowship for people who are potential founders, potential entrepreneurs, and who are experts in their field, versus some of the other categories that we have already in the immigration law that are for, people who wanna start a business in the United States. And then we have, an an e two visa. I mean, people applying for that have to be nationals of a a treaty country, but that's for people who wanna come to the US and and start a business, and they have to demonstrate, you know, that they have the capital and the capital's at risk, and it meets certain requirements, etcetera, which we don't need to go into. There's you know, there are there is an EB 5 investor visa program in the United States, and we have e EB 1 and, and o one visas. So, I mean, can you differentiate a little bit about, the types of applicants who you think are a good fit for the BUILD fellowship in comparison to using some of these other visa categories?

Danielle Goldman: Absolutely. And I will I will say that when we do information sessions and when we go out and talk about the cap exempt h one b, Jeff and I jointly talk about all options presented to individuals. And then we talk about the fact that if you don't fit into one of these categories, this is an amazing option for you. Because you're right, James. There are categories that are built out. And if an if you are extraordinary in your field and you were, you had the foresight to think about the qualifications that it would take to get an o one visa. And you got you know, you were published, and you thought to be a judge on a panel, and you fit the criteria for an o one. Amazing. You should definitely go that path. If you worked outside the US for a multinational company for 1 year or you are willing to do that, you should go up for an l one. If you are part of that treaty country and you are eligible to to make this investment and start a company in the US, you should go for the e two. But you would be shocked or maybe not so shocked to know and realize that there are so many individuals who choose h one b, because h one b has the lowest common denominator of criteria needed to actually stay and build build in the US or work in the US. It's for founders, you know, many of them do fit some of these other criterias, but also many talk to an attorney, and that attorney says, you have a 50% likelihood of getting an o one visa, or you have a 60% likelihood of getting an o one visa, and then it's incumbent upon the foreign national to decide are they willing to take that risk? And what we've seen with our fellowship program is a 99% success rate for anyone that we bring on as a fellow. And that's because the you know, it's a clear criteria for an h one b.

James Pittman: Yeah. That's true. With the h one b, once you've got it set up, and you've especially if you've got tried and, tried and trusted, positions or types of positions that they're filling through these institutions, that you're partnering with, there's much less risk, let's say, than some of the discretionary determinations that take place in some of the other Visa categories. O one, ed one, for example, for current those have a high, let's say, degree of discretionary interpretation that USCIS does during the adjudication, whereas the h one b is, as you said, much more, you know, sort of cut and dry as to whether the the position that the person's gonna be filling fits squarely within it. So by vetting the opportunity and vetting the fellows, you're making it a a a relatively low risk proposition. And you've said you have a 90% approval rating?

Danielle Goldman: 99.

James Pittman: 99% approval rating. Wonderful. Well, let's, talk a little bit about the nuts and bolts of, how someone applies for and participates in the BUILD fellowship?

Danielle Goldman: Yeah. So we have our website has an intake form. It's called a nomination form, and foreign nationals can nominate themselves if they have a company or a benefactor who's willing to support the BUILD fellowship program. Or a company can go right on there, or an immigration attorney representing a company can go right on there and nominate a candidate for the fellowship program, and we go through an evaluation process to determine, is this individual qualified for an h one b? Is this individual someone we feel would add value to students' career development, and are they willing to make this commitment for 5 to 8 hours per week to work with students?

Danielle Goldman: Because if not, this is not the right fit for them. This is not fine on the dotted line for a visa. This is, are you willing to contribute to these schools and add value to students while working for your full time employer? So we go through that evaluation process, to ensure that this is going to work, then we contract with the company that wants to have them full time in the United States, and that company is supporting the fellowship. They're saying we want to we want to give this opportunity to this individual to participate. You know, we care also about pipeline development. A lot of our companies see huge value in our fellows training students and getting access to those students who are being trained at our schools. And then we move forward with petition development, which takes about 6 to 8 weeks to get an approval on one of our cap exempt 820s, and they're able to start working for the fellowship. And then immediately after, any any US employer and, you know, attorneys listening, your you would file a concurrent cap exempt h one b on behalf of your clients at that time that our visa is approved. And people continue to work 5 hours per week. The fellows continue working 5 hours per week in our fellowship and full time for their employer.

James Pittman: Okay. A couple of questions. First of all, as you expand the BUILD fellowship, are do you intend, to maintain the condition that the positions the cap exempt positions that they're gonna be filling part time involve the training of US students? Is that something which is you see as hardwired? Because that's really, you know, that is the part that shows to the world that this is something that helps the, the US students, sort of increase their competitiveness.

Danielle Goldman: Yep. So we think of 2 things when we think of how we grow and build. 1 is compliance. What is compliant regarding, you know, per the immigration, per the law, per the legislation around cap exempt entities. So we have we have active working relationships with our university partners. That means we continue to have all of the fellows in our program add value to our universities. Today, that is through training students. Is there a world in which we add value to universities in other ways? And universities work with us to identify what those alternate types of value are, where these fellows are working within their field of expertise to add value to the school, yes. I'm always willing to get creative on programming in ways that we add value to schools. That's really fun. That's that's ways that we continue to evolve the education programs that we run. The other thing that we think about is impact. Right? What is going to be most impactful for the foreign nationals to do for that time? What keeps them employed 5 to 8 hours a week legitimately contributing to the future US workforce? And so we're always balancing what is compliant, what has to happen, and what is going to be most impactful for US society.

James Pittman: Now, is is the BILT Fellowship, can someone be nominated as a fellow if they're abroad or, they're not presently here in another status or they could be either?

Danielle Goldman: Either. Absolutely either. You know, when you're abroad, you have to go through the extra hurdle of going to get your visa stamp and making that appointment and getting through that appointment. So the, quickest path is for individuals here who are filing change of status, but it's absolutely, also open for individuals who come from abroad.

James Pittman: And who would be covering the costs of this? Are there any costs to the to the nominated fellow, or how does it work?

Danielle Goldman: An individual can never pay for their own h one b. Right? We know that individuals you know, the Department of Labor has strict guidelines around who must pay for the filing fees and for the visa applications. So we never have a foreign national pay for the BUILD fellowship because as part of this BUILD fellowship, there is a sponsorship component. And so we have the companies who are nominating an individual or a benefactor nominating an individual who's willing to cover these costs of the fellowship, sponsor the the costs for the program and the financial, and back the financial you know, make that financial commitment or the individuals who go through the fellowship.

James Pittman: Now suppose they, participate, the fellow comes, the fellow begins working at the cap exempt position part time, and they also find an employer who wants to hire them or work in a private company, which then files their concurrent cap exempt petition. Do they need to suppose then the 3 years of the cap exempt h one b, is used up. In order to keep the position that sponsored them for the concurrent employment, do they have to renew the cap the the cap exempt position as well? The 1st cap exempt part time position.

Danielle Goldman: Right. So we file a 3 year cap exempt h one b. We have a 6 month minimum in our program, but we do encourage that every single fellow in our program enter into the lottery year after year. Because while we obviously want individ to offer this program to individuals to get in to be part of this this fellowship, We also want individuals to move forward. The whole point is for individuals to move forward on their immigration path in the US. So we want them to enter the lottery. We want companies to simultaneously start green card applications for these individuals. And they could stay in our program for the full 3 years, and we could file a a an extension for another 3 years, and we have. But for the most part, within those 3 years, before those 3 years are are up, individuals typically have an alternate path. They either win the lottery or they have a green card started for them. And we've had a lot of individuals file o one visas because they worked on meeting that criteria while in our program. And so there are various ways in which you exit, but we are, of course, willing and able to file an extension for individuals who need to maintain cap exempt h one b status.

James Pittman: Okay. So that's that's kind of an important thing to understand. It's a detail, but it's an important one to understand is that the concurrent petition that gets filed by the, let's say, private employer, doesn't it it doesn't transform and and become, you know, cap, exempt for purposes of renewals. They they must, in order to to have, that available, they must maintain, the first cap exempt petition, which is the the part time position. But once they're here, they are actively looking for expanding their options, and you're providing navigation or guidance on on what the options are. I mean, what's the extent of your involvement in helping them to find, you know, a path forward from the initial position?

Danielle Goldman: Most of our fellows have their own attorneys. Right? They come from referrals from their company's attorneys. And so those attorneys that partner with us are advising the individuals on next steps. We don't do that. We, you know, we'll give that you know, we host monthly immigration q and a's, and we'll answer questions as we go, and we're more than happy to refer them out to immigration attorneys if they need advice on their next steps. But for the most part, we partner with immigration law firms that are advising their clients on their next step in their in their immigration journey, and they send their clients our way and then continue to advise them for future o ones or or lottery applications or the green card petitions.

James Pittman: And how do you how do you reach attorneys to and how do you partner with them? How does that take place?

Danielle Goldman: Yeah. So for the most part, it's been, you know, a lot of word-of-mouth, and we're constantly reaching out to attorneys. We're at AILA every year with a booth, and Jeff has been on Ayla panels about talking about cap exempt h one b's. We just started a new partnership program where we will start working with law firms to create, you know, referral pages and referral networks where individuals can be referred to one of our BUILD fellowship programs, and we will refer individuals back for additional support from those law firms. So we see a lot of opportunity to work closely with law firms across the country to support their clients and also, you know, make sure that that we can bring them, clients as well for those for those next steps in our fellows' journeys.

James Pittman: Are there steps that you take to ensure that, everyone's maintaining compliance, that the the nonprofits or college and use universities are maintaining compliance. The employer who files concurrent petition is maintaining compliance. Because h one b has, you know, fairly large number of regulations and and making sure the fellows themselves are, you know, acting within the scope of their status. I mean, how do you how do you keep everything?

Danielle Goldman: We built this program slowly but surely, piece by piece based off of the compliance necessary to run a cap exempt program. From 2,018 to 2023. Compliance has been first and foremost as we took every single step forward in building out the program. Now what we're saying is we're gonna have the BUILD fellowship run all compliance behind the BUILD fellowship programs at nonprofits around the country. And so for the new Dream Venture Labs prog build fellowship program, for the Penn West GW build fellowship program, for Open Avenues Foundation, the BUILD fellowship as an entity will be running the compliance behind all of these programs. It is top of mind. Nothing happens if this is not compliant. And so my role my my role as CEO of the BUILD Fellowship is to ensure compliance across all of our BUILD Fellowship programs.

James Pittman: Understood. Well, how do you, how would you measure the success and the impact of the BUILD fellowship over time? I mean, what what do you really wanna see, in terms of some markers that this is you know, it's it's succeeding. So, I mean, it has succeeded, but Yeah. What are you what are what are some of your goals?

Danielle Goldman: That's a great question. So we're focused on the number of build build fellowship programs that launch around the US this year and in the future. We're focused on the number of companies that can retain and keep foreign talent in the US because of this fellowship program. We're focused on the number of startup companies that are able to stay and build in the US because of this fellowship program, and we're focused on the number of students and and, Americans working with these these fellows who are building careers in the US because of this fellowship program. So it's really about the, you know, the ability for these, you know, on one hand, it's the infrastructure that we're building out this year and in the future for these fellowships to scale. It's the number of individuals who access the fellowships themselves and are able to stay and what they're able to do in the US because they stay here. And then it's the students and the schools and and what the impact is for them and the careers in which they are able to launch because of the BUILD fellowship. And that's what we're tracking through surveys and data collection and robust systems that we've built out through the BUILD fellowship over over the last year. And you've described some of the programs, that the fellows participate in, but is there is there a place, I mean, either on the website or elsewhere, where someone could go if they wanted to see examples of the types of research or published content or the instructional sessions that the BUILD Fellows are contributing to? Yeah. Well, open avenues foundation.org has an entire page of these really exciting BUILD projects that have launched you know, that are are current, actually, and are currently running with our university partners. That is the best collection that we have externally where you can really see the incredible work that is being done and that students can access from these fellows. So if you go to our web page at open avenues foundation.org, there's a career pathways section. You see all of our college and university partners and the projects that have launched and the data about the impact that those projects have on our college and universities. We also will be launching the same type of, of of web page for our new partners, but you can see more historical data on Open Avenue's Foundation's website. We mentioned biotech, and, we mentioned, innovation in general. But are are there specific industries where the fellows have really tended to excel or would that have been most successful? And are there any sectors or industries that you're eyeing for expansion? Historically, because we started in Boston, we had a concentration of biotech companies and and start up biotech companies that really wanted this solution for scientists, and and key personnel at their companies. We still have a a large cohort of of biotech professionals. We also have a lot of software companies, technology companies with developers and engineers that go through our program. We have a lot of financial institutions with investors or financial analysts that go through our program, and and we're definitely looking to expand more into that space. And, really, you know, machine learning and AI, we're seeing a a an increase in volume for those individuals with specialized niche machine learning skills coming from abroad who have different types of training. And I think that is a really interesting point here is that different countries have have different professors at their schools with different specialties, and it results in individuals having expertise internationally that we could really use to forward these industries. And we see that a lot in the sciences. We see training that has happened abroad at specific universities in Germany, for example, where the biotech companies here really want to access that type of skill set. And so we've we've worked on building out those pipelines from those those schools to the biotech companies that need that type of talent. So, you know, as we look at expanding industries, we're really looking at where the demands are. You know, the semiconductor industry is desperate for talent desperate for talent. And can we work with those companies focused on on increasing semiconductor talent to bring the best and the brightest here with this program. That's something I'm very interested in diving into, and listeners on this today might say, I know an industry that really needs an innovative solution to bring talent to the United States or retain talent because they have a massive concentration of international students applying for these jobs and therefore a retention problem. And so that's really what we're focused on moving forward. Have there been certain countries that have really predominated in terms of

James Pittman: producing fellows, or is it widely distributed?

Danielle Goldman: It's widely distributed. We have 30 countries and counting, probably more than that at this point, that have that we have fellows coming from. Of course, you you know, because of the numbers, we have a a a large amount from India, but we we have fellows from from all over the world, and it's really exciting to see the diversity in our our large team meetings. It's one of my favorite parts to see just really where everyone is coming from and the value that companies, find in talent from across this across the world. Well, how can, organizations or companies or individuals who think they could play a role, in the BUILD fellowship, how can they get involved, and how can they reach you? Yeah. So on our website, www.BUILD fellowship dotcom, you can reach out. There's partner pages. You can learn more about how you as a whether you're a company, whether you're a law firm or a nonprofit, how you can engage with the BUILD fellowship, and you can reach out to contact us and get more information. And one thing I'll say is that we are looking to launch build fellowships in regions across the United States. So for lawyers, for companies, for nonprofits who are interested in figuring out how to implement this talent solution for their own, you know, region or or local population or, you know, the regional innovation centers that have launched across the United States from the CHIPS Act, we are able to to support with a BUILD fellowship program. And so we're really excited about a future where individuals start contacting us because they see this potential to partner and launch these BUILD fellowships.

James Pittman: That's amazing. I mean, it's it really is, I think, a a win win proposition. I mean, the policy, you know, motivation behind, you know, the immigration laws around, employment based immigration. I mean, we wanna bring people here who are gonna help build the US economy. I mean, US has the most dynamic, most powerful economy in the world. And in order to retain our global standing, one of the things that we've traditionally done is leverage talent from around the world. And looking at this as a way to, you know, get people who are gonna help drive innovation in the United States, get get the most talented people in the world to come here and participate, and allow the US and US students and US industry to benefit from their expertise. That's that's really what it's about. It really seems like a solution whose, you know, time has come, and it it seems like something that really works. And it's it's making the most out of making the most out of the system, really. But what Danielle, what message would you like to convey to our listeners who are interested in learning more about the BUILD Fellowship and its end?

Danielle Goldman: My message is let's build together. So I we're really in this growth phase. We're really open to partnership. We're really looking to expand this and make it something that is, you know, the AmeriCorps of immigration. We want to have individuals who are qualified, who are excited to be contributors to the United States, adding value to our colleges and universities across the country. And if you wanna be part of that, we are our ears are open and my calendar's open, so please, please reach out.

James Pittman: That's great. And, Danielle, it's been so great talking about the BUILD fellowship with you, and we really appreciate you being with us here on Immigration Uncover.

Danielle Goldman: Such a fun conversation, James. Thank you for having me.

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