James Pittman: Welcome to Immigration Uncovered, the docketwise video podcast. I'm your host, James Pittman, cofounder of docketwise, And this is episode 41, and we are talking about maximizing every minute. Our guest is gonna be Nadine Heights, founder of Heights Immigration Law and cofounder and CEO of Caseflow. Well, welcome, Nadine. Thanks for joining us.

Nadine Heitz: Thank you, Jane. It's great to be here with you.

James Pittman: Nadine is a frequent guest on our program, and and she's really a well known immigration lawyer. She's very active on social media and, very known, very much known as a tech innovator and someone who's an advocate for, increased use of technology by immigration lawyers. So we're gonna be talking about time management and efficiency in immigration law. This is part of our whole series on greatness, being a great immigration lawyer, and, so we're gonna get into it. We've done, 2 episodes about greatness previously, and it's gonna be our 3rd. So, Nadine, in a high volume immigration practice, time is often the most valuable resource. So how do you prioritize tasks to ensure that you're maximizing every minute?

Nadine Heitz: Well, James, I think the first important thing is that you need to know what your tasks are. So in our firm, we have every single task listed in our case management system for everything, whether it's casework or admin work. And, you know, everyone can log on every morning and see exactly what tasks are due for them today, what the priority is because we also have a way to prioritize tasks. And the nice thing about that is as they get tasks done, they can mark them done. They can also mark the task as maybe it's stuck or they're working on it. And this way, we all know what the status is for every case because anyone can view that task list for a given case. So that's kinda how we prioritize making sure that tasks get done.

James Pittman: Mhmm. Gotcha. Well, Nadine, one of the, you know, main ways to increase your effectiveness and efficiency as an immigration lawyer is to stop wasting time, and there's a lot of ways that one can waste time if you're not careful. So what are the common time wasters that you see immigration lawyers doing in their practice, and how can they avoid them?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. And I do talk to a lot of immigration lawyers because I do tech coaching. And and one of the most common, you know, time wasters and pay points is the whole document collection process. Right? Like, we are spinning our wheels. We are, you know, asking our clients to bring us documents. Maybe they send us you on email. Maybe they bring a few in. And then, of course, the client, you know, calls you one day and says, oh, how would you file my case? I brought you everything, and, no, you didn't. Meanwhile, 3 weeks have gone by. Right? And now they're still missing key documents. So my belief with this is always have it they have the ball in the client's court every time. Right? So we have an automated system that we use for document collection, so the client is constantly reminded what they need to provide. They're reminded every 3 days, and if a client calls us and says, hey. Why is my case not filed? We could just point to that tech tool that we use and say, no. We've been reminding you of x y z. You know? Are are you struggling with something? But there's no excuses. The ball's in your car. So I think we waste a lot of time just on emails back and forth, phone call tag. No. Have a tool that kind of automates this and reminds your clients.

James Pittman: Gotcha. Well, you know, you have to balance a lot of priorities, in, you know, in a law practice and in the in real life. And how do you go about managing, or the balance between what's urgent, so urgent client matters and things that have to be attended to, versus having time to focus on long term strategic goals for your practice.

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. That's a good one. And I think first you have to define with your team what is an urgent matter. Like, what do you consider to be urgent? Right? So think of having your own kind of emergency policy. Like, tell your team and write it down in a policy, when this happens, this is a true urgent matter that you need to pull me out of whatever, you know, even if I'm on vacation. Like, what is urgent? Is a deadline missed urgent? I would think that is urgent. Right? But is a billing problem urgent? No. I think that's maybe something that the staff might be able to resolve and maybe, set up a task for me to review. So I think really defining what is urgent is gonna be important because, otherwise, you're right. You're gonna not be able to do your own strategic goal planning and if you're constantly bombarded with urgent questions. So, the other thing you can do is recommend that all those little questions that yourself may have about a case, send them to you in a way, not on email, please, but we have a system in our case management where we can tag somebody on a question, and then we can review just the tagging of those questions. We don't have to feel like we're being bombarded every minute, so I can set aside a time of maybe a half hour a day to kinda review any of those notifications where I may have been asked a question. And that way, when I have goal planning on my calendar, I'm not bombarded with, you know, urgent questions. So that's kinda how we do it.

James Pittman: Okay. It sounds like a good system. Now you have to delegate a lot of things, in your firm. I mean, we're you know, each of us is just one person and there's a million things to do. So how what role does delegation play in your approach to time management?

James Pittman: And how and and we talked you mentioned a little bit about your task management system, but how are you being how are you, determining and evaluating whether tasks are being handled efficiently by the team?

Nadine Heitz: Well, similar to task management, the delegation process, first, you have to define and and we define this once in the beginning, who does what and is defined often by case type. So, you know, if a new case comes in, it gets assigned to somebody, and then all the tasks are automatically delegated based on that case type and based on who it's assigned to. So we don't have to constantly make decisions about delegating every day because we have a system in place where we know who's doing what. It's kind of like an assembly line approach in some respects. So, for example, I have an invoice. You know, one of my staff members does the invoicing, so they would be, assigned a task to make sure the invoices were properly created in our automated system. Another person does all the changes of addresses. So if there's ever a change of address that comes up, that automatically gets assigned to that person. So, it's not a matter of deciding of who's gonna do what because we kind of have decided that in advance. So I feel like that really helps.

James Pittman: Well, Nadine, you know, you're very active, as an advocate for helping immigration lawyers to adopt technology and, you know, advocating for its use to help people become more efficient. And you have the technology for immigration practitioners Facebook group that you moderate, which is a fantastic Facebook group, one of the best, really. So I wanted to ask you, you know, you must have gained a lot of wisdom in terms of which tools, you prefer using. Can you share which tech tools or techniques have really significantly improved your time management and your productivity?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm glad you find the the group interesting. I, originally formed it, thinking I would share my tips, and I learned so much from everybody else. But, as far as what tools I really have found improve productivity, as you know, I I love using monday.com. I discovered that in early 2020, and it really revolutionized the way we run our practice, and we can talk a bit more about that later. But I wanted to mention Calendly because that is a really effective management tool for time, and it's different from just your Google Calendar because Calendly allows you to book Pittman, and your, clients can book appointments with you. I use it for everything, even vendors, everything.

James Pittman: And don't you don't you almost feel like Google Calendar should just add that feature of allowing people to book appointments with you and it would be just that much more effective?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. And I I think I saw something that they're coming out with something like that or I mean, I wouldn't be surprised because it's so critical. And there's others. There's acuity. It doesn't have to be Calendly, but get something like that. It's just going to make such a difference in your life. Just release your calendar to everybody. Don't worry because people can be very you can be very specific on what you set up, that they can only book appointments for certain James. Whatever you want, you can you can, really define the limits to what people can book.

James Pittman: Mhmm. So Monday in Calendly? Any others?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. Well, of course, DocetWise. You know? I have to use DocetWise for forms. And, honestly, I I I love the flagging feature, James. That is the best thing ever because similar to how I was talking before about reminding your clients to get their documents in, When clients submit their address history, they never get it right. They never give you all the 5 years. There's always something missing, and we can just flag that question and tell them, please, this is you know, you need to go back 5 years, and it just makes life easier. Yeah. Another good tool, I think, for me is a reception service. We use Smith AI. There's others out there, but having the ability to have backup reception when our staff can't answer the phone and have a live agent 247 is really helpful. So that that's really helped us.

James Pittman: Sure. Well, thanks for that. Yeah. I mean, we'll we'll talk more about Monday because I don't think that, enough immigration lawyers are familiar with Monday. It's just something that they they haven't really encountered.

James Pittman: But we'll we'll get to that when we talk about case flow. Right. So in terms of, you know, when you're in practice, and I remember this from my years, a lot of times, you know, there's interruptions. I mean, clients can call or sometimes people even drop by. Unexpected things happen. So, you know, how do you how do you personally, find in other words, how do you maintain your focus when interruptions or unexpected issues inevitably arise?

Nadine Heitz: Well, as I was saying before, I do ask that staff not interrupt me constantly with little things. We do have a system where we can all tag each other with questions we may have about a case, and then we can pick a time during the day to review those notifications so that we're not constantly bombarded. Because one kind of rule that I have is do not email anyone on my team, me or anyone email each of us, to ask to do something for a client's case because that's just a black hole waiting to disappear. Right? You you email someone, say, please call this client, and then they get that your your team member gets the email, and then they forget about it. Right? And then you forget that you sent it. So we insist that everything has to be task driven. So if you want something done on a case, it has to be a task in our Monday system, and that's the only way we can really keep track of things. But even just, closing my office door when I need to I mean, if you work from home, maybe you have less interruptions, or maybe you have more because you might have other kinds of interruptions.

Nadine Heitz: Right? So having a door that you can close your office is really important.

James Pittman: It it really is. And and setting up I find setting up the physical space in a way that's conducive to to focus so that you're not, you know, you're not, you know, distractions are not in your in your immediate work space. So it's really important to configure the space physically in a way that enables you to focus and, you know, allow yourself enough physical space to feel comfortable. All those things are very important. Yeah. So, you do coaching for immigration lawyers, and I'm sure you must see a lot of people who struggle with immigration lawyers, and I'm sure you must see a lot of people who struggle with their time management and even a lot of people, you know, who feel overwhelmed by their caseload. Maybe that's even the reason why they decided to, get you as a coach. So what advice do you do you give to to those people when they're struggling with their time management?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. That's a really good question. And what I ask, the the immigration lawyers that I coach, I said, what are your pain points? Like, what are you just dreading about your caseload work? Is it the document collection process? Is it the forms process? And maybe it's the tech tools or maybe the lack of tech tools. So when you have that list, make a list of those pain points because that's going to tell you what areas you need to focus on. Then you're going to be able to prioritize what if you could change this. So if you, you know, could change the your document collection process and have a really smooth, efficient process, how would that relieve your stress? How would that make your life better? And, of course, it's okay to seek help. Right? We all sometimes need some coaching help. So seek out, people that can help you. But make a list of those pain points and then see which ones you can tackle 1 by 1.

James Pittman: Great advice. And, and the immigration lawyer community is just great about sharing information. Oh, yeah. Seeking out mentors and peers, to bounce ideas off and collaborate with is is super important, and and and it's it's helped by the fact that you're in a a community which is sort of naturally, good at that. Yeah.

James Pittman: Yep. Absolutely. Let's, talk a little bit about scaling and growing a successful immigration law practice. So in terms of scaling up a practice, taking on more more business, you know, what are some of the steps that you would have to go through to ensure that you're doing that efficiently and and sustainable growth? Because it's more than just, like, accepting every case that comes your way. I mean, when you're trying to scale, you're also trying to brand yourself. You're also trying to develop probably expertise in in in specific subfields of immigration law, because immigration law, as we know, is very varied. Right? There's a lot of different types of immigration James, and a lot of James, you wanna sort of take specific types of cases and develop sort of a a specific focus on those. So how do you advise people, in terms of scaling, to do it efficiently and sustainably?

Nadine Heitz: Well, I think you mentioned one area that we all hear a lot of, niche. Right? What's your niche? So that's important. Something that comes to my mind on that topic is really defining your policy and procedures early on because if you're going to scale and grow, you're going to need solid policies and procedures. And for example, if you want to hire new staff, what's your onboarding process? Right? What's your training look like? You just, you know, a lot of times, new staff, don't work out because maybe we haven't really trained them properly. So the next staff person you hire set up that onboarding list and set up those training tools. Like, we have a a board called, administration where we have all of our, how to's. How to's for immigration, updates. How to's for policies and procedures, down to the vacation policy and the dress code and all the rules. So as you scale and grow, you have a solid foundation. And if you, ever talk to, someone who, you know, specializes in buying or selling law firms, I follow a podcast of an attorney who specializes in that, they all talk about having solid policy and procedures in place. If you wanna grow your firm, if you eventually maybe wanna sell your firm, or, you know, that that's really so so important and I think often overlooked.

James Pittman: And, you know, when you're coaching people, I'm sure you're you're spending a lot of the time talking about technology, because it's so important to us. So what are the main ways in which technology gets leveraged to enhance efficiency in an immigration law practice?

Nadine Heitz: For me, I think it's automation. And, of course, AI now is important too. But when I think of automation, I think of what can you do kind of on autopilot. So for us, we start at the very beginning with our CRM, our customer relationship management system, which is also in Monday. And we're constantly reminding our potential clients to do things.

Nadine Heitz: Right? We're reminding them to show up for their consultation. We're reminding them to sign that contract. We're reminding them to book their, you know, their new welcome to our firm appointment with our team member when they do sign up. And these reminders are all automatically done, so automation is key. And, you know, there's AI for things like, a Zoom meeting where you can use an app like Fireflies. There are lots of others, but basically, you have an AI attend the meeting with you and it takes all the notes. Right? And then at the end, you get a nice summary. So some of you may have used these apps. I personally use Fireflies. Fireflies will attend all of my Zoom meetings even if I can't make it as long as you let it in. Right? Now if you don't let it in, that's fine. But if you let my Fireflies, you know, notetaker into your Zoom meeting, it'll send me a nice summary of all the to do list even if I didn't attend. So and and really important is when you go to AILA conferences, check out all the different new tools there. That's a great way to really learn and talk to some of the vendors to really know what can you leverage in your practice.

James Pittman: Yeah. Fireflies is a great tool, and I've, you know, I've recommended it to people. It gives you transcription of meetings, really saves you an enormous amount of time, and then you have a written record of of the meeting, so it becomes invaluable. Yeah. Yeah.

James Pittman: Now when you were building your practice, so you said you started in was it 2015? Yes. Okay. So, you know, you open the doors, Heights Immigration Law, and you got your first clients. And, you know, you're scaled up, and now it's, you know, you're you're you've hit the big time. So what were some of the challenges that you faced, when you were scaling up your practice, and how did you overcome them?

Nadine Heitz: Well, I was just talking about policy and procedures, and I think one challenge I faced was that I kept a lot of information to myself because in the beginning, it was just me. So I had all these, you know, tools and things, but as I added staff, I wasn't really sharing all of my, my system's knowledge and everything with my team. So I think it's really important when you have all of these, training tools and policy and procedure rules that you have them in a system that everyone can access and everyone can comment on and everybody knows what it is, and they can look it up for themselves. So, you know, as you scale, you cannot be the go to source for everything. Right? So you want your staff to feel that they have somewhere to go to to find those resources. So, I think that's really something that a challenge that I faced where I just realized that I've gotta share this more.

James Pittman: Yeah. I think the the policies and procedures, the onboarding, the training, I mean, I think that these are things that not enough firms are really doing this in a in a thought out methodical way. You know, they some lawyers think you just hire someone and you just tell them what to do, and they'll pick it up as time goes by. That's really not the most efficient or best way, to onboard employees. So I know what you're saying and, you know, having a structured onboarding process. I mean, you probably should develop training materials as time goes by.

Nadine Heitz: Right. And that's the key, James, as time goes by because you definitely can't do everything at once. I think that's what's overwhelming thinking that, oh my god. Day 1, I have to have an HR policy. I have to have a policy and procedure. I have to have everything. Do it as you go. Right? So your first hire, what are the the steps? And then refine with the next hire. So the this is a living and breathing document. It should reside in some kind of, cloud based system that you can update regularly.

James Pittman: Absolutely. Well, you know, when as we're do as you're practicing, you wanna maintain a a high level of client service. That's super important. Because the client experience, is what gets them is is what, you know, generates client satisfaction, and that's what gets you referrals and gets you repeat business from the same clients. So it's it's maintaining consistently high level of quality of client service and also personal attention, which is important. So how do you accomplish this Heitz level of client service and personal

Nadine Heitz: Well, I mentioned that one of the tools we use is Smith AI Reception Service, and the key really here is that first of all, what's the number one complaint most clients have about law firms that they never get a callback. Right?

James Pittman: Right.

Nadine Heitz: I call my lawyer and he or she never calls me back. That's what they all say. So to solve that problem and personally, I hate voice messages because you come in the next morning, you've got 15 voice messages on a recording and you write them all down and then you get busy and you don't return them, and that's the other problem. Right? So with a service like Smith AI, and it could be an in house receptionist as well, but everybody who calls us gets an immediate booking of a client callback. So if an existing client calls us, our reception service has instructions. They have our Calendly booking link, and they will book a callback appointment usually the next day, because we have one team member whose calendar is open specifically for these callbacks. So you call and you say, I have a question about my case. Great, missus Jones. You know? What time can we call you back? That way you're available and we're available to discuss your case tomorrow, 2 PM, blah blah blah, Calendly link book. So now it's on that person's calendar. It's a task they have to do, and we do the same for for leads for consultations. Right? They call. They can book consultation. Right away, it shows up on my calendar. So I think that we really do achieve a high level of customer service with our clients because they know that they're going to get a callback from us. They just have to call us, and they can book that. You could even email them your booking link in advance if you want to do that, and that way they won't blow up your phone and messages all the time.

James Pittman: Yeah. I mean, just a couple things to add. I mean, there there were there was a survey done several years ago, you know, asking lawyers what, you know, what they the the single ingredient they felt that they needed to become successful, and and by far, the the most popular answer was more clients. But then as part of that study, they sort of, you know, called law firms and and and saw how long it took the firm to call back new prospects.

Nadine Heitz: Oh, wow.

James Pittman: And the sort of the average was, you know, 3 days.

Nadine Heitz: Oh my god. You know, which is you know, I mean,

James Pittman: a lot of clients a lot of prospects let's call them a lot of prospects get very, insecure if they have if they've if it takes you 3 back 3 days to call back a prospect. I mean, they Yeah. They're looking for a lawyer when they call you. Like, they and if you're not available, they're gonna talk to the next one. So right. So you wanna be, you know, calling people back the same day or at at latest the

Nadine Heitz: next day. Or get an appointment booked, which, you know, like, get them while they're hot. Right? You wanna talk to Nadine? You wanna do a consultation? Great. When can we book you? Here. It's booked. Yeah.

James Pittman: And and and the seamlessness of the the seamlessness of the process. Right? So every point of contact with a prospect from the first time they contact your firm all the way through, the process of handling their case until their case is complete. You know? Every every single experience should be, you know, a uniform Heitz standard, of of interaction. Right? That's that's how you maintain client satisfaction. Do you survey your clients when their case is complete?

Nadine Heitz: We do. We actually have, key points within their case that we send out a link just to book a a call with me because I'm not always talking to them. So I'm kind of doing like a little bit of surveying. So at the 30 day mark and then at the 60 day mark, there the client is encouraged to book a 15 minute call with me, and I can kinda ask them, so how are things going? You know? Oh, I see, like, you know, we haven't filed your case yet, you know, because, you know, we're waiting for your divorce document or whatever. So it just reinforces that we're on the ball. We understand what's going on, and if they have any issues, they can bring them up with me at that time. Because a lot of times too, clients feel like, well, they never get to talk to the lawyer. Right? They only get to talk to the paralegal. So, I may not be talking to them all the time, but I try to at least, once or twice during the life of the case, have a a call with the client. And at the end too. And then yearly follow ups, just reaching out. Hey. How's it going? Right? Email automated reminders that you have a future case to file for maybe a future end for a 100 or something. We have that set up in our system as well.

James Pittman: Yeah. And and this and always keep in mind, the single biggest source of complaints against lawyers is that they don't return calls. Yeah. So, I mean, in terms of, like, for an existing client, not a new prospect, but an existing client, if they contact the office, do you have, like, a uniform same day call return policy? Or or

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. No. We have a we have a a system where we book them

James Pittman: a

Nadine Heitz: time that they're gonna be available for us to call back. There might be if you call in the morning, you probably can get an afternoon appointment. Okay. And but if you call in the afternoon, you'll get one the next day. Understood. Yeah.

James Pittman: And you do that's done through Calendly as well?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. Yeah. Our reception service has the Calendly link. It's specific for that only that purpose. Yeah.

James Pittman: Got it. Okay. That's great. That's a good system. So the the law firm culture is super important, and that can impact, you know, the efficiency of the whole business. So how do you cultivate a culture of productivity within your team and your firm?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. I agree that culture is really important, and I think, I mean, I'm lucky I've had a few key team members that have been with me for a long time. I do also have some virtual assistants, and you really have to make sure that they fit with the culture of your firm. And when I think of culture, to me, what that means is that they understand that when we switch from one technology app to another, it's not because we just want to, but because we are improving things and being more efficient. Everybody on my team understands that. I want to give you an example. When I hired my first virtual assistant, I had a choice of 2, and one was a lot more educated, meaning, you know, had more impressive resume, but the other one was a little bit more, kinda a little bit bubbly, like, a little more expressive and seemed to be a more caring type, and I felt that she would be great on the phone with people. And I picked her, and I'm so glad I did because she turned out to be a real superstar. And that, to me, is a good culture fit, somebody who's a real caring person. And it may not always be the the more impressive resume, but it I just felt like she was a good fit for us.

James Pittman: Yeah. For sure. For sure. And, I mean, do you, do you survey your employees as well?

Nadine Heitz: We do, like, 1 on 1 reviews. So we do kinda sit down 1 on 1 and talk about what they can do better. In we do have our task system set up so that we know if somebody may be overloaded or if somebody may not be keeping up. Maybe they're not keeping up because they're overloaded. Maybe they're not keeping up because they have something else going on in their life. So, I'm able to weekly review the tasks and see if there's any overdue. We also track time, so I'm able to weekly review that as well. Have you identified, firm values that feed into the culture? Yeah. I mean, our firm values are that we believe in being honest and upfront with our clients. So when they walk in the door or they call and a lot of James, clients come to us from other firms or even trying to do something on their own, but they never understand their case. They haven't a clue what they did. And I'm not going to explain all the legalese, but I do want them to understand the process. So we have some little kind of infographic style sheets, especially like a case with a 601A waiver is very complicated, right? You have to do this and you have to wait for that, and then you got to wait for that and you got to do that. And so we like to explain it as simply as possible. I think at one point in my life, I wanted to be a teacher, so I love teaching and explaining things. So I'm I really value that, and I want my whole team to value that as well to really make sure the client understands what is going on with their case.

James Pittman: Great. That's great advice, Nadine. Now, let's talk about, Caseflow and the, you know, the whole importance of technology, and making every minute count on what you're trying to do with Caseflow. So you're the cofounder and CEO of Caseflow, which is a new platform for immigration attorneys. It's built on Monday.

James Pittman: So let's talk about it. Tell us about it, and how has how has technology, especially Caseflow, transformed the way that you manage time and cases?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. I'm so excited that we, are able to share this with with you and and people, you know, viewing this because it's really made a difference for me. Like I said, it it was early 2020 when I discovered Monday, and here's the thing I was looking for. I was looking for something that I could customize and I could see all the language that I use on a day to day basis in the stages of my case. So usually, most cases are defined by open, pending, and closed. That's the common practice. Now I wanted more. I wanna track my cases by stages, like working on, case review, client signing, sent to USCIS, received by USCIS, got receipt, got bio, interview, RFE, like all the things that happened. And I wanted to see them visually in so that I could open up my case management system, and it just James out at me. So I'm not having to run a report to get those statuses. I'm not having to go to each individual case and look it up. I'm not using Excel spreadsheets, which believe me, you know how many lawyers have a case management system. Right? But they're supplementing it with Excel spreadsheets because the system doesn't do what they want a spreadsheet format to do. So Monday is like an Excel spreadsheet on steroids. It has all pretty colors and buttons you can click on to make things happen. It can integrate with other apps easily. So when I discovered Monday, I realized I could build the system of my dreams, and I took, you know, a couple of years to do that. We've launched Caseflow. I've worked with, several immigration attorneys already to put this on their Monday system. So you sign up for Monday, and we install Caseflow on Monday. So basically, you own it, You can modify it yourself. You can hire us to modify it even more for you. We can integrate other apps for you. But it's just so visual, and I I really love it.

James Pittman: A lot of immigration lawyers aren't familiar with it. I mean, do you do you encounter, like let's talk about this for a second. I mean, how do you, as a coach, and as a mentor, deal with people who might be a little bit tech phobic or or they're just oblivious to a platform like Monday. I mean, how do you get them over that resistance or that fear?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. I show them in a demo, and this is what encouraged me to launch Caseflow. Because when I first started my tech coaching, I was just using Monday, and I was just showing them and they were interested. Well, show me what you do. So I look, here's what I do, and I would do a Zoom demo and look. And they're like, oh, wow. Like, I want that, but I don't wanna set it up. Right? Because I said, well, you know, it took me, like, you know, 2 years to get to this point and, you know, a lot of time and effort. But, Nadine, I don't wanna create that because Monday comes blank with a clean slate. You gotta set up all the names of the group.

James Pittman: It's only as good as your ability to set it up.

Nadine Heitz: Right. Right. So I realized, hey, I think there's a real demand for this. And the fact that I have all the immigration language that we use, like RFP, like the words USCIS and Voya, and, you know, I have all that language built in, and then you can still customize it further. We work with attorneys and maybe somebody does a lot of perm cases. We can build them a board just for their perms because perms are such a unique workflow. Right? It doesn't really fit into anything. So you can just make it whatever you want. And the integration is awesome. We we've got Calendly integrated with it. We've got Stripe. We've got, you know, we can integrate DocetWise. We can integrate almost anything that has an open API. So it's a lot of fun.

James Pittman: Now it's been said that technology helps smaller firms complete compete with larger firms. So, you know, a lot of times clients think that they're going to get, you know, a certain kind of service in a larger firm, and, you know, they have these ideas about how about whether they wanna go to a smaller firm versus a larger firm. And and and smaller firms, you know, might feel that they can attract the same clientele that larger firms might, you know, might. So it's been said that technology has been an equalizer. And, really, even smaller firms, even solos can punch way above their weight and handle a lot more business more efficiently with technology.

James Pittman: So let's let's talk about that idea.

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. And that's totally true because I think we can really level the playing field even more with with technology nowadays. Something as simple as, let's say, USCIS receipt tracking. Right? Clients call you and they say, how long is my case going to take? Why is my case stuck? Why is it taking so long? We've actually, developed a USCIS receipt tracker app that can be added to Caseflow, and you can automate updating your client even on the processing times. So you can notify your client, hey. Your case has now gone beyond processing times. We should start to bug USCIS, right, by doing some online requests, by filing ombudsman or whatever. That can all be done efficiently, whereas before it might take a lot more, manual labor to look that up, right, to keep track of that, to call back the client. So email automation, I think, and even mass emails are really critical to communicate quickly and efficiently information to our clients. Think of the most recent, PIP, the parole and praise, right, the family unity program. In my Monday system, I was able to select just by clicking on the cases on clients that are eligible and send them all a quick mass email on the new program. And then, of course, I had to send another one a week later when it got canceled. Well, not canceled. Right? But now it's on hold. So, anyways, any immigration law changes, you can more easily communicate them efficiently. So we can compete with maybe the the bigger firms that had more staff to share that information or to maybe maybe clients think that they're more knowledgeable, the the big firms. I don't really know what they think they're necessarily getting. Right? Do they think that they know more or they're more powerful? I don't know.

James Pittman: Yeah. They might have ideas that probably aren't, you know, that grounded in reality. This, I think, most people understand now. But no matter the size of your firm, whether you're a solo, whether you're a small firm, whether you're a firm, you need to be using technology nowadays. You know, way back in the day, it was there were, you know, let's say, sort of like the folk wisdom where it wasn't even wisdom, but sort of there there was this idea, you know, maybe 20 years ago that only the big firms needed, you know, a case management platform. That, you know, that is let's just put that to rest once and for all forever. Whatever size firm you're in or if you're a solo, you need to be using updated tech tools, in order to maximize your potential, in order to really be successful in in in in the environment that we're in.

Nadine Heitz: Right. Yeah. It's absolutely critical. And, you know, I tend a lot of technology panels. I I visit the vendor booths at the conferences.

Nadine Heitz: And, you know, as far as knowing what tools I should use, one thing I recommend to everyone to do is a tech audit. So just, whether you do it on a spreadsheet or just on a piece of paper, write out all the tools that you're currently using with their costs, with their features. First of all, see if there's any overlaps because sometimes one tool can do things that another tool can, but here's my my kind of belief. This is if I can find another tool that does something better and makes me more efficient and makes my team more efficient, I may still use it even if it's extra an extra cost. Right? So, you know, like the the Gmail example, I mean, I can, you know, even if Gmail comes out with bookings similar to Calendly, if they provide the same features as Calendly, sure. I might ditch Calendly and use the Gmail feature, but right now, I use Calendly to supplement my calendar. And I don't mind doing that because I value, being more productive and more efficient and value paying a little bit. It's still cheaper than paying for staff. Right?

James Pittman: It it's true. I mean, there's 2 things. First of all, it you know, being the, you know, the cost of the technology is, I think, something that especially solos and small firms can sometimes, get hung up on in a way that's counterproductive. It's, you know, you don't wanna be penny wise and pound foolish. And there's a lot of that type of thinking out there, you know, not understanding how you can harness the efficiency of a tech tool, and it's gonna pay for itself because you're gonna become more efficient. You're gonna be able to scale up. Your firm's gonna become more profitable. You're gonna be more successful. So you can afford the tool if you're using it properly. And that's something which, you know, it's it's it's you have to stay in the right frame of mind, and, like I said, not, you know, worry about cost to the point where you're not actually, realistically, you know, considering how this tool is actually gonna actually gonna make you more profitable. That's one thing. And and second thing is, doing it with regard to the tech audit, I think that's really important. And there's another aspect to the tech audit, which, is making sure that you're actually using all the functionality or as much of the functionality as possible for the tech that you already have.

Nadine Heitz: Yeah.

James Pittman: So that should be part of your tech audit is to go through the tech tools that you have and say, listen. Do do you really understand what the features are, what all the features are on the tools that you already are using, and are you actually making the most out of them? And I know this is something which it's a discipline that people don't you know, most people don't take too naturally. I almost feel like this is something like, you know, when people are, like, keeping track of, you know, calories that they consume or whatever it is. It's like something that people it's not a pleasurable thing to do, but it's very important, you know, because a lot of times you see people only using a tiny fraction of the capabilities. And we, you know, we sometimes see that with DocuWise that, they're not aware of what all

Nadine Heitz: the functions are and they're not using them. So that should be that should definitely be part of your your tech audit. And it's a discipline, but it's something which really will make you better if you implement it. Yeah. Absolutely right. I talk to immigration lawyers all the time, and they don't they may realize that those features exist, but they always say, oh, I haven't had just explored that. I haven't really spent the time on that. So you need to really commit to some time upfront to learn your new system. Right? Just like you would learning your legal skills. Like, would you a new program is launched. Of course, you're going to read all about it. You're going to attend the latest AILA webinar on the new whatever procedure is out this week. Right? You're going to invest a little bit of time upfront. You need to do the same with your technology tools. And, you know, not only and and book whatever training is available. Right? Like, I tell people, if you're struggling with something, ask the vendor, like, hey. Can I get all this do you have anyone that I can do a 1 on 1? Because I'm just not getting this. I'm sure the vendor would be more than happy to explain their feature to you rather than elude you. Right? So don't try to go it alone. Get help. Absolutely. And I

James Pittman: this is a good, point to ask, you know, how you stay, up to date on on the technology and what tech tools are coming out and and the state of the technology. So you mentioned, you know, going to the conferences and talking to the vendors. That's super important. There's also podcasts. Yeah. There's CLEs. What are what are some other ways?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. I mean, definitely going you know, you mentioned those 3. Those are critical. Reaching out yeah. Yeah. My Facebook group, Technology for Immigration Practitioners or TIP, just look it up and, post a question. We're constantly having our members say, Hey, have you heard of this new app? And it's amazing. Somebody's usually heard of it, and it's great. Like, we just share so much valuable information on there. Talk to your colleagues. Find out what they're using. Attend technology panels. Speak to the vendors at the conferences. Yeah. Now, Nadine, do you feel like, you're you're maximizing every minute and your efficient time management, not only does it help your firm from a business perspective,

James Pittman: but it also impacts the outcomes of the clients' cases. So let's let's talk about how these practices really lead to outstanding outcomes.

Nadine Heitz: Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, as far as, you know, trying to maximize my time, that's definitely the key. And if you can master your own time management, then you're gonna have less stress in your life. Right? And that in turn is gonna make you happier and healthier. So, I think mastering your your time management is really key.

James Pittman: Well, what are some of the habits or routines that you've developed that help you to maximize your time? Like, what do you do every day where, you know, you know that you're you're you're operating efficiently, You're not wasting time and and so forth. Right. So I am a firm believer in calendar blocking. I'm sure

Nadine Heitz: many have heard about that, putting time blocks on your calendar, and I've even taken it further to daily blocking. So, for example, days of the week are designated for different things. So for me, Mondays are the day that I kind of work on some personal things. Maybe I have to, you know, arrange some things, and I also use Mondays for my technology business to to work on that. Tuesdays Thursdays are the days that I have open on my Calendly appointment link for consultations. And when I don't have consultations, if I you know, I don't always have consultations all day long, I'll do marketing tasks on those days as well. Wednesdays, I'd leave those empty for client casework. So the cases that I have to work on, I really block off the time on my calendar. And then Fridays, I prefer to block Fridays off so no one can ever book a meeting with me on a Friday, and that's kind of my, like, my catch up day. I might take it as a personal day off if I can. You know, I have that flexibility because I own my law firm, or I might just come into the office and work on a bunch of things that just kinda, you know, I I feel like getting done. So I think managing your time in time blocks is really important.

James Pittman: Yep. It it sure is. And, you know, you may wanna have a day designated as your admin day to do, you know, some of your, you know, administrative tasks in the office and then block off the time when you're gonna be doing legal research, block off time for networking. All all all of those different, you know, activities that you do, you should try to to structure it and see, you know, when when you most like, when are you freshest? When do you really feel like you need to do you're in the best frame of mind to do really thought intensive work, like figuring out issues in a client's case or trying to write a brief or something? Like, what time of day is best for you to do that? You know, what what day of the week is best for you to do admin? Do you feel most like digging into your your, you know, your administrative tasks on a Friday, you know, as people are leaving, you know, and you have more, you know, quiet or or whatever. But you need to you need to figure that that out for yourself. It's it can be different for each person, and that's how you really optimize your efficiency. Now, Nadine, what you know, this is I mentioned that this was the the, part 3 of 3 of our greatness series, talking about the different aspects of being a great immigration lawyer. And, we talked about gaining the client's trust as being a key pillar of being a great immigration lawyer. We talked about achieving outstanding outcomes as being a pillar of greatness, and now we're talking about maximizing every minute. So, you know, it I mean, we should aspire to greatness. Right? Being a great immigration lawyer versus just being an immigration lawyer. Right? There's some things that everybody does, but the truly great immigration lawyers are doing certain things in an outstanding way. So let's talk about what you think it means to be a great immigration lawyer and how does maximizing every minute factor into that. How does that help you become a great immigration lawyer?

Nadine Heitz: Yeah. I think a lot of it really is mindset. So if you're confident in your ability to learn and adapt to, you know, new things, like, technology is one of them, and if you're confident that you're willing to embrace some of the the new things that are out there and commit to spending a bit of that time upfront to learning about it, you're gonna be rewarded with a huge improvement in your time management overall. So, you know, making yourself spend that little extra time in the beginning really pays off. And I think that overall, better time management is gonna lead to better case management, is gonna lead to happier clients and more referrals. So, you know, you then you're gonna feel like you're really being a great immigration lawyer. So I think that if you're just confident in your ability to do that, and seek help if you need help, by all means, do that.

James Pittman: Alright. And, Nadine, do you have any other parting advice that you would like to give to, immigration lawyers who are striving, to be successful and maximize every minute and achieve greatness. Any other any other tips?

Nadine Heitz: I would just say, try to book yourself maybe one, full day. Just go off-site if you can and map out your goals and really be realistic in what you can accomplish in a year. Like, put you know, get a year calendar and actually put in the personal things first. Put in your vacations. Put in your family commitments that you know are gonna happen, and then, add in the rest. Because pretty soon, those calendars are gonna get pretty booked up, right, as you go from day to day. So if you block off time for those big things, and really map out your goals, I think you're really going to have a much better time dealing with when those little things do start filling up because they won't encroach those goals and those big things that you've already put on your calendar, and you're just gonna be be happier and and be less stressed. So I think that's really the key.

James Pittman: Okay. That's great advice. And it's been a it's been a really interesting conversation, and these are all fantastic insights, really. This is this is gold, in terms of being a sick a successful immigration lawyer. And, you know, and Nadine's been there, and, and she's achieved it. So, thanks so much, Nadine Heights, for joining us, from Heights Immigration Law and cofounder and CEO of Caseflow. Yes, Nadine. Thanks so much for joining us, and, again, please, join us again for our for our next episode of Immigration Uncovered.

Nadine Heitz: Thanks, James.

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