James Pittman: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Immigration Uncover, the docket wise video podcast. I'm your host, James Pittman, and today, we're diving into an important topic that affects individuals around the world. I'm talking about loss of nationality, renunciation of citizenship, and statelessness. We can title this episode giving it up. For many people, citizenship represents more than just a legal status.

James Pittman: It's a fundamental part of their identity that provides rights, privileges, and a sense of belonging. However, there are instances where some people choose to give up or are forced to give up their citizenship, and that leads to complex legal and personal consequences. We're gonna examine a lot of these, in detail in a second episode. Today, we're gonna kind of introduce the topic and talk about some the concepts, and then we're we're gonna get in into the nitty gritty in our second episode. So in today's episode, we're gonna explore what it means to renounce citizenship and the various legal and tax implications that individuals must consider.

James Pittman: We'll also dive into the concept of statelessness, what it entails, how it occurs, and the challenges faced by stateless individuals. So loss of nationality is a kind of red haired stepchild of immigration topics. And what I mean by that is it tends to receive less attention and discussion compared to other immigration issues. So while topics like asylum, refugee status, and pathways to citizenship are what you hear about in the media and often form the bulk of immigration attorneys' caseload, a loss of nationality is often an overlooked or unknown topic or treated as a peripheral issue. So despite its importance and the profound impact it has on individuals' lives, loss of nationality is, often relegated to the sidelines.

James Pittman: Now as a result, individuals who have this problem of losing their nationality or statelessness may find themselves navigating complex legal and bureaucratic systems and situations with limited resources. Now the decision to renounce citizenship or the occurrence of statelessness can have far reaching effects on individuals' lives. It can affect somebody's ability to travel and work to access their health care and education. It's a topic that intersects with immigration law, human rights, and international relations. So it's important to understand and discuss it. Now let's start off by talking about what we mean by nationality and citizenship. These are related concepts. They're not exactly the same thing, but they can have different meanings depending on the context. So first, nationality. The term nationality typically refers to the country or nation to which a person belongs by birth or descent.

James Pittman: It can also refer to the sense of identity or belonging to a particular nation, and it's often associated with the cultural, ethnic, and historical ties to that country. Nationality can be acquired by birth, which we call jus, sanguinis, or by being born within a country's territory, which is jus soles or the right of soil. It can also be acquired through naturalization. Now citizenship, on the other hand, is a legal status which is granted by a country to its citizens. Encitling them to certain rights, you can think of it as a bundle of rights. It includes privileges and protections under the law. Citizenship often implies that you have allegiance to that country, and it carries with it responsibilities such as obeying the laws, paying taxes, and sometimes serving the military. Citizenship can be acquired by birth, by descent, by marriage, or through the process of naturalization. So you see that nationality and citizenship are closely related concepts, but they're not always synonymous. For example, a person may be a national of one country due to their ancestor or place of birth but hold citizenship in another country due to legal status granted by the other country.

James Pittman: Additionally, some countries do use the terms interchangeably in their legal systems, while others make it like the United States, make a distinction between the 2 based on specific criteria. Now as as far as US citizens giving up their US citizenship, the, the United States government has often taken and traditionally taken a negative attitude toward that. So, historically, it has had a negative attitude for several reasons. The first is taxation, and the United States is one of the few countries in the world that taxes the citizens on their worldwide income regardless of where they reside geographically. So renunciation of citizenship can be seen as an attempt, to avoid paying taxes, especially for high income individuals subject to significant tax obligations. Sometimes national security concerns are cited. Renouncing citizenship can raise concerns about people potentially becoming stateless or seeking citizenship in countries with hostile relations with the United States. This could be perceived as a security risk, especially during times of tension and conflict. And this is kind of goes back to sort of like the I would think of the cold war mentality. In part, it's the cold war mentality.

James Pittman: It's this whole idea of defection, of, you know, changing allegiances, and that is obviously for for obvious reasons, is is frowned upon heavily. Also, patriotism and allegiance, this shades into the the next reason. So renouncing citizenship is, reviewed at or as to viewed can be viewed as a rejection of one's allegiance to a country and a lack of patriotism. So in a nation that places strong emphasis on national identity and loyalty, renunciation of citizenship can be seen as unpatriotic and disloyal. And that's definitely the way that it was traditionally seen in the United States, at least for the 20th century. Now loss of rights and benefits. So US citizenship grants various rights and benefits, including the right to vote, access to government services, and protection under US laws and treaties. So renouncing the citizenship means giving up these rights and benefits, which can be perceived as a loss for the individual and to a certain extent for the country. And there's also just the symbolic significance. Right? Citizenship is also often considered a fundamental aspect of one's identity and belonging. So when you're renouncing citizenship, you're giving it up. It's a it it's seen as often a symbolic rejection of the values, culture, and history of the United States. Due to these, you know, viewpoints, the US government has implemented regulations and procedures to discourage and often penalize individuals who renounce their citizenship for tax avoidance purposes, for example, by imposing an exit tax or barring those people from reentering the country after renouncing their citizenship. So it's important to note that renouncing citizenship is a legal process and a legal decision, and individuals may choose to do so for various personal, financial, or ideological reasons.

James Pittman: Let's look at a few famous examples of former US citizens who have renounced their citizenship. 1st would be Eduardo Saverin. So Eduardo Saverin was the cofounder of Facebook, and he renounced his citizenship in 2012 before the, Facebook's IPO, their initial public offering. It was widely speculated that he did so to avoid capital gains tax on his Facebook shares. 2nd example would be Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London and later prime minister of the UK.

James Pittman: So Boris Johnson was in fact born in New York City, and he did hold, dual US and UK citizenship. However, in 2016, he renounced his US citizenship possibly to avoid, legal complexities and obligations associated with being a a dual citizen and also in regard to US tax law. Another example is Tina Turner, the singer, iconic singer and entertainer. She renounced US citizenship in 2013 after she had been living in Switzerland for many years. So she had become a Swiss citizen around that time and had been living in Switzerland.

James Pittman: So her decision, to become a Swiss citizen was likely influenced by long standing connections to that country. And, also, she said, a a desire for privacy and to lead a quieter life away from the public spotlight and her fame in the United States. Another example would be sir John Templeton. So he was a very famous investor and philanthropist. John Templeton, was best known for founding the Templeton Growth Fund in 1954, which was one of the world's first mutual funds. He renounced his US citizenship in 1964 to become a citizen of the Bahamas where he resided. This was also for tax reasons, and he was known for his successful investment strategies and charitable endeavors. So these individuals that I've mentioned gained attention for their decision and speculation often centered around tax considerations, although personal reasons may have also been, a factor in their decision. Now let's talk about some of the reasons why people might choose to give up their US citizenship. So first would be the tax issue. And, again, just to restate, US is one of only a few countries that does tax its citizens on their worldwide income regardless of where they are actually residing geographically. So for some people, particularly those with significant assets or income that they have earned abroad, US tax obligations can be complex and burdensome. There are reporting requirements and the taxes themselves, And so there's both the compliance and the financial aspects. So renouncing citizenship can, eliminate these tax obligations once the person has satisfied all, you know, existing obligations. So that person may wanna become a a citizen of a country with more favorable tax laws.

James Pittman: Next would be personal or family reasons. So, you know, a lot of the people who renounce are people who originally came from another country, and they came to the United States perhaps early in their life, perhaps as students, and they worked here. And then at a certain point in their life, they decide they want to go back to their country of origin. And they just find that due to their legal obligations, you know, it would be easier for them to give up their citizenship since they are planning to go and reside permanently in their home country. So that's a a a common situation. Also, sometimes, some countries don't allow dual citizenship. For example, Japan. So if, someone is born in the United States to parents of Japanese ancestry, that person would be a citizen of the United States by region of birth, but they might also have the right to Japanese citizenship, which I believe that they need to claim by age 21. So if they intended to actually go and live in Japan and become a citizen, they would go to Japan and engage in the necessary process to actually claim the citizenship, Rach. Well, I mentioned the the regulatory compliance. So when US citizens are living abroad, they're subject to various reporting requirements, such as the FBAR, which is it stands for foreign bank account reporting. So if you have your US citizen and you reside outside the United States and you have a bank account in another country and you have over a certain amount of money, say, I believe it's $10,000 currently, and you need to file every year an FBAR, which is foreign bank account reporting. And there's also, the foreign account tax compliance act or FATCA. So we're gonna discuss these in more detail in our next video, but I just wanted to bring them up. Some individuals may find these requirements burdensome to have to go through every year, and so they choose to give up the citizenship rather than have to continue, meeting that compliance obligation. So we mentioned dual citizenship. Sometimes there's protests or dissatisfaction. So So they actually choose to renounce their US citizenship as a form of protest against various US government policies, actions, or values with which they disagree. It's basically a symbolic gesture. I mean, it's more than a symbolic gesture.

James Pittman: It is a it is a legal act. But, you know, in some sense, they're doing that to symbolize their rejection or dissatisfaction, disapproval of various policies. But it is always important to keep in mind that renouncing US citizenship is a very significant permanent decision, legal, financial, and personal implications. So anybody who even contemplates such a course of action has to carefully consider all the factors involved, and they should seek professional advice from an attorney who, understands the process of renunciation and the tax and legal consequences thereof and immigration consequences thereof, they may also wanna see professional tax advice. Okay. Now I'm gonna, talk about the concept of statelessness. So what is statelessness and why is it an important topic? So statelessness refers to the condition of not being considered a national or citizen by any country. So this is where you have no nationality, and it occurs when an individual is not recognized as a citizen under the laws of any country, leaving them without the rights and protections that citizenship provides. So stateless individuals can have all kinds of problems.

James Pittman: They often lack access to basic rights, the ability to enroll in public school systems, the ability to utilize health care systems in countries in which they may be present, lack of right to employment, difficulty, you know, earning an income, and lack of legal recognition. They often face, discrimination, marginalization, and difficulties in getting essential services. So how does this happen to people? That's a that's probably what you're wondering. Statelessness actually can occur for various reasons. First of all, it can occur due to discriminatory laws. So there are some countries that have laws that deny citizenship based on factors such as ethnicity, religion, or gender, leaving certain groups of people stateless. There have been several countries which have or did have laws that deny citizenship based on factors such as, ethnicity, etcetera, leaving certain groups of people stateless. So let's look at some examples. So Myanmar is an example.

James Pittman: So Myanmar has a Rohingya ethnic minority, and that minority has faced systematic discrimination and denial of citizenship for decades. The government has enacted laws and policies that effectively render the Rohingya stateless and deny them citizenship based on their ethnicity and their religion. The Dominican Republic has a history of denying citizenship to individuals who have Haitian descent. They are very strident and adamant about sort of maintaining their border with Haiti, and they really do not want people a a large number of people coming coming across. So, particularly, they deny citizenship to those born to Asian migrants. Now in 2013, there was a ruling by the Dominican Republic constitutional court retroactively stripping citizenship from individuals who were born to undocumented immigrants from Haiti dating back to 1929, and that left an estimated 200,000 people stateless. Kuwait Kuwait is another example. So Kuwait, is a country that has a fairly large population of stateless individuals who are known as the Bedouin, and they're mainly people of Bedouin origin. So the Bedouin have faced challenges in obtaining their citizenship, and they're often denied access to services and employment in Kuwait. Nepal is another example. Nepal, has historically discriminated against certain groups, including the Modisi population, in terms of its citizenship. They've imposed stringent requirements on acquiring the citizenship, and that disproportionately affects these marginalized communities. There's Saudi Arabia, which has a significant population of stateless individuals, also, many Bedouin or Baytun. And those are, people who are descendants of nomadic tribes that never registered for citizenship at the time the country of Saudi Arabia was in fact established. So those Bedouin or Baytun face legal and social discrimination, and they have limited access to education, health care, and employment in the country. So these examples highlight how discriminatory laws and policies perpetuate statelessness and marginalize certain groups within society. Addressing statelessness requires legal reforms, political will, and international cooperation to ensure ensure that all individuals have access to citizenship rights and are protected under the law regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or gender. Another reason why people become stateless is due to conflict and war. So during conflicts, during wars, borders can change. Governments might collapse. People might flee, their home countries, leaving them without documentation or legal recognition in in any other country. State succession. So when a new state is formed through the breakup of another state, individuals residing in the newly independent state may not automatically acquire citizenship resulting in statelessness. So this this can happen, for example, let's say at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union, persons who had the citizenship of the Soviet Union, there were procedures that needed to, you know, they needed to go through in order to acquire citizenship in the countries that formed out of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. So you can imagine if someone happened to be abroad at the time, and they did not immediately return, it could leave them in a legal limbo.

James Pittman: Also, administrative issues. Sometimes there are errors errors that take place in the registering of the birth or the governmental processes, and that can sometimes inadvertently leave individuals, to become stateless. So why do we care about statelessness? Well, it's an important topic for a couple of reasons. First of all, is the reason of human rights. Statelessness deprives individuals of their fundamental human rights and their dignity. Without citizenship, stateless people often face obstacles, as we've discussed, and that leads to a cycle of poverty and marginalization. So when that's not corrected, you have, you know, generation after generation being stuck in a legal limbo who are on the margins of the society. Legal protection. So as we've mentioned, citizenship provides legal protection and recognition. So statelessness leaves individuals vulnerable to exploitation, vulnerable to abuse because they are not part of the body politic. They're not part of the system. They're not on the grid. So that places them in a vulnerable position. And they can lack legal identity documents, and they could have limited recourse to seek justice.

James Pittman: They might also be in the shatters and be fearful of availing themselves of legal processes. So that makes them vulnerable. Also global migration. So statelessness is closely linked to the concept of forced migration involving displacement and refugees. So stateless individuals may be unable to return to their home countries or settle in a new country, which exacerbates issues of displacement and migration. And there's international obligations. So states have international obligations under human rights law and refugee law. There is an international dimension on the treatment of stateless persons and not all countries are signatories to it. But there are, laws and treaties, and that those are designed to prevent and reduce statelessness. Obviously, they are not 100% effective or we wouldn't have some of the problems I just mentioned, but there are conventions and laws and treaties. So as well as to protect the rights of stateless individuals within their territories. So states are obligated to protect stateless individuals. Now, efforts to address statelessness include legal reforms, birth registration programs, and international cooperation to protect the rights of the stateless. There are organizations such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, which is UNHCR, and some of their work involves preventing and reducing statelessness worldwide through advocacy, legal assistance, and awareness raising campaigns. Alright. Well, that is today's introduction to the concepts of nationality, citizenship, and statelessness. And next time when we come back, we're going to go deeply into the process of losing US citizenship and what the actual requirements are, what the considerations a person who is thinking about it should make, what the tax obligations are, the expatriation tax or exit tax, and other tax obligations. And we're gonna talk about that next time. So until then, thank you for watching.

‍